Lexus Customer Service

User Reviews, Ratings and Comments



Lexus customer service is ranked #163 out of the 946 companies that have a CustomerServiceScoreboard.com rating with an overall score of 49.33 out of a possible 200 based upon 133 ratings. This score rates Lexus customer service and customer support as Disappointing.

NEGATIVE Comments

115 Negative Comments out of 133 Total Comments is 86.47%.

POSITIVE Comments

18 Positive Comments out of 133 Total Comments is 13.53%.

Issue Resolution

Reachability

Cancellation

Friendliness

Product Knowledge

Disappointing Overall Customer Service Rating

  • Lexus

    Customer Service Scoreboard

    • 49.33 Overall Rating
      (out of 200 possible)
    • 115 negative comments (86.47%)
    • 18 positive comments (13.53%)
    • 0 employee comments
    • Attribute Ratings
      (out of 10 possible)
    • 2.3 Issue Resolution
    • 4.0 Reachability
    • 2.4 Cancellation
    • 5.1 Friendliness
    • 4.1 Product Knowledge

Add your review!

Posted by BAC


CT Hybrid 37,000 mi. Door lock on drivers side replaced $600.
brought home and passenger side wouldn’t work!
Clearly a defect and my warranty is over!
I have not had satisfaction with dealer and I’m going to original dealer in Annapolis!

Posted by Barry


I bought my wife a new Lexus in 2006 for our wedding anniversary. It was an IS250 and has been a good car. Lexus is pretty good about scheduling appointments and serving free food while you wait (whoopee), but lately the door panel and dash recall has tested Lexus customer service and it caused us problems. Even the a/c drainage hose clog was BS. As if we put something under the carpet to clog the hose. Thank God we caught it early before THAT caused more damage. After having the dash panel replaced our navigation system stopped working. Upon complaining, they agreed to "check the connections". Of course, they were "fine". My mistake and recommendation to all customers is before having the dash replaced, go through ALL electronics with a technician to ensure everything works BEFORE they replace the dash. You can complain until you are blue in the face but unless you do that, you are stuck with a new dash and broken electronics. I am pretty sure the dash was replaced WITHOUT THE BATTERY BEING DISCONNECTED. I wish we never had the dash replaced. I had planned on buying another Lexus in time but this changes things. I refuse to support any business after being disrespected as if we were trying to get a nav system replaced that was broken before having the dash replaced. It is belittling to customers to be told you are wrong and they are right. I even had a dash carpet cover so we could have settled for keeping the old one, I never thought this would happen. Goodbye Lexus RC, a broken nav system and a BS procedure has caused me to mark you off my list.

Posted by Anonymous


I have a 2010 GS350. was looking at trade in and newer model. Riverside Ca. Offered 11,000 trade but did not have the car I was hoping for. Found the car in Ontario, Ca. the sales kid with all the Asian neck tattoos referred to me as Bro, Homie and Dude. After ignoring it but feeling disrespected he turned on the stereo to show me the Levingston Stereo. This CLOWN now thinks I want to crank this as loud as possible and listen to gangster rap! I reached over turned it down and then said if you don't refer to me as Mr. Grillo you and I are going to have a problem. He had no clue why!!!! I then went inside and he said he would get the internet Manager this was after he stated upon arrival he was the internet manager. They offered 2,000 below Riverside Lexus and got defensive when I said their offer was a disgrace to the Lexus Brand. we walked immediately and will never consider Ontario Lexus again.

Posted by Anonymous


I recently purchased a used 2008 Lexus LS 460. I purchased my vehicle in Texas and I live in Florida. This experience with Lexus has been a complete NIGHTMARE! Now we all know once you purchase a car from the Dealership Its all shiny and pretty. I’ve noticed that the material on the inside of all 4 doors are literally MELTING. It looks HORIABLE!!!!! I tried to have it professionally detailed and it still looks BAD not to mention its STICKY to the touch. If that’s not the worse, it gets worse than that … I went to go to work and my vehicle would not START!??? I tried to get a jump, thinking it was the battery, or the starter. Nothing Worked! I got my vehicle towed to The Lexus of Clearwater Dealership…. Thinking they can help… (WRONG). I felt like all the DEALER care about is MONEY…MONEY…MONEY (How DEEP are your POCKETS!!!! I’m a SINGLE parent, my funds are accounted for. Lexus advised me that I would need to get a diagnostic test done first on the vehicle so they can see what is wrong with it, which is $100.00. Then Lexus advised me that my Fuel Pressure Sensor has went out, and need to be replaced by ME and the cost of that will be 1500.00. They didn’t mention Any RECALLs or Anything ELSE. I had to do my homework. When I looked up RECALLS for Lexus 2008 LS 460 it stated there’s a recall on the Fuel System, Gasoline, delivery Hoses, Lines, Piping and Fittings. So I called the Dealer back, and they advised that according to my VIN number my vehicle was already repaired for the recall. So I would be responsible for 1500.00 bill, I then asked to speak with someone at Corporate, So the Lexus Rep passed the buck and gave me Corp. number. I then called and made a complaint and was advised someone will call me back in 2 days. Still not having a LOANER vehicle and No source of transportation. I finally spoke with a CASE Manager at Corporate and was advised that he will look into the matter and he will call me back in another 2 days. Meanwhile I’ve been without a Vehicle for an entire week. Yet still there is no guarantee on if my vehicle would be covered under the Recall. So long story short. … I thought very highly of LEXUS and now with my material MELTING and Fuel issue’s this has been a REAL LIFE NIGHTMARE. To anyone out there reading this …Please think twice before purchasing an LEXUS, I’m being RIPPED OFF! If a Recall part went bad again, Lexus should cover that with out question.

Posted by Jenny C


I purchased a Lexus 350 from this dealership January 09,2018 and at that time the vehicle was paid in full by a bank check and deposited into their account. I paid to have the vehicle shipped to me. I have been requesting the title for 1 month. I have the vehicle in my garage and unable to register it in my state (NC). I am currently renting a vehicle everyday until I am able to receive the title and register the vehicle. NC and CA both refuse to give me a temporary tag. CA because I am registering the vehicle in NC and NC because I do not have the title. I have spoken with several people (Lia Agababian, Robert Silva, Debbie, Kaynan Khlepariand and Omid) at Glendale Lexus and continue not to get an accurate answer as to when I will receive the title I am entitled to. Please save yourself the headache and frustrations and purchase your new Lexus from another Lexus dealership. I will update this post if and when I receive the title. As of today (02/09/2018) its been 1 month and I (or my bank)have yet to receive the title.

Posted by theresa


When I Bought My Lexus 350 The Dealer,treasure Coast Lexus In Port St.lucie,florida Through In Protection Sealant In And Out To Make A Deal. After I Moved To Nevada, I Asked For The Warranty To Be Used Here In Nevada In Case I Have A Problem With The Paint Or Leather Living Here In Nevada. They Said It Would Only Be Used In The Dealership In Florida. They Advertised An Outside Company Protection Plan. After I Called The Protection Plan,they Had No Record That I Have A Warranty With Them. This Dealership Is Misleading Customers Just To Make A Deal.

Posted by Anonymous


I was promised by Lexus of Winter Park that they would replace my 4 door panals, due to they are melting. I have been calling them for 2 years now and they keep saying that they are on back order. Do you know if they still are. Or can you mail them to me, and my mechanic will install them.
Thank you, Gail Holder

Posted by Anonymous


Your customer service response is terrible. To direct a customer to your general number without the ability to directly contact a case manager or leave a message is not a great option. Have you any idea how long I was left on "hold" waiting for a response??????

Posted by Anonymous


Need to talk to the person in charge of handling the recall of the HS250h I have spoken to the dealer more than 3 times nobody seem to know anything, I have been promise to be called back from JM Lexus in Margate, Fl (FORT LAUDERDALE) yet no one has had the courtesy of calling or follow up, it just seem they don't want to get involve and they keep the run around and pretty much have no answer or have any knowledge of it, very unprofessional, I am very dissappointed to have bought a hybrid car and have it broken down for 6 months, lexus was not able to fix car when I got the quote then wasn't til little after The recall came on the hs250h and just seems they don't want to be responsible, to me seems like a lemon car i think I need legal help and an attorney. Someone in the Lexus

Posted by Jeff - yorkshire


Recently went to try RC ( thought TV ads looked nice) at main dealer. They couldn't provide test drive but promised to get car available. After a week that never happened so contacted lexus customer service. Had pointless text from them asking for my car details?? and promising to respond in a 'few days'. Needless to say that didn't happen either. After over 20 years of owning BMW this ' service' is in such a marked contrast - which I won't pursue. I'm sure their little Aygos are lovely but see why they are unable to even start to gain traction as a prestige brand.

Posted by Anonymous


Interested in test drive of advertised of new RC. Point less. Don't have cars and have no more success with, so called, customer service. Will stay with current BMY.

Posted by Eun chi


Never buy Lexus again! So many little issues and they keep coming back! With a brand new car, the maintain fee cost me more than 4 grands. I'm so sick of this car, and the service managers don't even give a damn about it. What a horrible choice I made to buy a Lexus.

Posted by Kathy


There is a current Lexus television ad that is very insensitive and arrogant. A young man drops business papers in the street as a Lexus approaches in his lane. The auto-brake works and disaster is averted. However, the driver of the Lexus, instead of stopping to help pick up papers out of the street, gives the guy an annoyed smirk ("how dare you drop papers in front of my fancy Lexus" ) and roars away. He continues to look annoyed and privileged as he guns his Lexus away from the poor guy he has left in the street.
This is an offensive ad that would appeal only to privileged, spoiled rich guys who want to feel superior in their Lexus. I request that you remove this ad and hire a kinder, friendlier ad agency.

Posted by Susan


I am the second owner for 6 months now of a 2008 LS 460 with 74k miles. I had now idea about the sticky dash issues before purchasing this car. There was no sign of this problem in December 2016. I am experiencing a melting dash and door panels that leaves black tar on my hand when I close the door. I'm not getting any help from customer service or the local Lexus dealer. This is a manufacturing breakdown and no Lexus owner should have to foot the bill for repairs in or out of warranty, below or above 100k mileage. Who knew that a car that had a retail sticker of 69k would be worth less than a 2003 GMC Envoy!

Please reply

Posted by JoanMackCars


I love my Lexus RX 450 H 2016 the only thing I hate about it is the doughnut I will be ready in 2019 for a new RX 450 H can you answer me whether or not it will have a full size spare?

Posted by TL


We own 2006 Lexus IS 250 and have been patiently waiting for the door panels to be replaced. What is Toyota/Lexus doing about rectifying this situation? We have had the dash board panel replaced in California but have now moved to Charlotte, NC.



With Summer approaching the extreme humidity is quickly approaching and the panels will get very sticky. Hendricks Lexus has been unable to give us any assurance as to when the door panels might arrive. We are somewhere around #170 on their list so even if they do receive the panels, it seems unlikely to us that they will receive a sufficient number of panels to meet the demand.



This is clearly giving Lexus, a very reputable and well respected organization, a band name. Any solutions would be appreciated.



Sincerely,

Posted by cissieb


accessory suggestion

Hello,

I know this sounds like a joke but Im serious. I would like to suggest an accessory.. I would like the option of pepper spray dispensers on the front, sides, and back of our vehicles.

With all the crazy demonstrators blocking roads and smashing cars that try to go through these blocks, it would be nice to have a way to fight back without running them down and causing injury or getting our vehicles beat up . Maybe it would even stop these crazies from blocking highways and roads, once they knew they could easily pepper sprayed.

Thanks,

Gwenn Walden,

Posted by Anonymous


Your new commercial where the person driving is alerted that a pedestrian is in the road. What the hell!!!
The driver is so pissed off that he has almost run someone over instead of stopping and helping...really what is the msg, get the hell out of my way!
Will never buy your cars!

Posted by Anonymous


Lexus has the best customer service. I am writing to reflect my and my wife's unhappiness with the new RX 350 front grill! We both drive RX's and have been Lexus drivers for well over 20 years. LS and RX. Lexus designs have always been industry leaders. This is the first Lexus design that people make immediate fun of. "Cowcatcher" front end is the funniest. "Embarrassing" is the worst! We are planning to buy new Lexus' this fall but if the RX front end is still a laughing stock of car reviews and the public we'll be buying competitor vehicles due to looks even though we love the interior cabin design and performance of the RX. Please improve the ugly front grill!!! Sincerely, Chuck Sack Austin Texas

Posted by Anonymous


Why is leather seats in 2011 350 substandard and what can I do about it.

Posted by Will NOT BE BACK AGAIN


lexus dealer Rorich of pittsburgh /Lexus of North Hills one of the same. My air bag recall has been a horrible experience.Add the ignorance of a service manager,
no actual corporate assistance or complant department,months of excuses.At minimum,I have made a 40K mistake.Guaranteed it will not happen again at any of their so called Family of Dealerships.If Lexus corporate would award me a dealership in the Pgh area,I would purchase,establish and run the current Dealership right out of business.

Posted by Anonymous


I did 1 year service on my 2015 Lexus LS460L and found out they did not fill washer fluid, actually was totally empty (which had fluid in that when I left the car) tires were over inflated. I was advised to get fuel injectors cleaned. I have only 11000 miles, never heard that fuel injectors need to be cleaned so soon.

Posted by Airbag fatality


I received a airbag recall notice and contacted my local Lexus dealership on December 9th. No one has gotten back to me today is the 19th. My Mercedes dealer is always back to me within 45 minutes. Love the car not impressed by your service.

Posted by Anonymous


I currently own a 2010 RX350 and have been trying since July 2016 to purchase a 2016 at that time and now a 2017 without success. My first visit to a dealership, I was completely ignored! Upon return, I did talk to someone who could not answer any questions. I returned again in September and thought things had improved. I was told that since I wanted a Red RX350, there was not one in the State of California, but I could wait for 2017 models (in November) and I could get one. Information was taken and I expected to be contacted....wrong! I have since gone on line(reached a different dealership) to try to get a 2017 Red RX350 and was told I could have a car this week, either Friday or the weekend, whichever day was better for me. Then I received a call and was told there was no Red RX350 for me and I could wait until Mid January 2017 and they have a Red one on order and it "would be mine". Not sure I believe I will hear back. I complimented them on being so busy and selling so many cars, that I was "left out". He did say that they really were busy and if a car happened to show up, he would get back to me. Sorry, this is not great customer service in my opinion. Buying a car should not take this much effort on my part. I love my Lexus and that is why I am trying to get a New One.....should I find another Make, i.e. Mercedes, BMW etc? I am really frustrated and no one can believe this is happening.

Posted by Carriea


I purchased a Lexus in 2012 and traded it in at Park Place Lexus in Plano in 2015. I worked with Kenny Adekoya and my experience was great. I received my refund of the warranty cancellation within two weeks thanks to Kenny. I ended up trading the car in that I got in 2015 in October of this year. I went to Park Place to give the Finance Manager, Kendall a copy of my Odometer statement so that the warranties could be cancelled and a refund sent to me on October 5, 2016. I have yet to receive my refunds. I have called with no return call. I went to Park Place Lexus on 11/7 on my way to work. I spoke with Kendall's supervisor who informed me that he would do some research and get back to me. It is November 15, 2016 and I have yet to receive my refund or a call from Kendall or his supervisor. I assure you that if I owed Lexus money they would be beating down my door! This is so crazy!!

Add your review!

Posted by NA


Had a great experience with your rep. (Latoya L.). She went over and beyond to make sure that my concerns were taken care of. Good customer service is hard to find and I make sure that when I do get it, I compliment the service provided. Thanks Ms. Latoya.

Posted by Anonymous


Jim Hudson Lexus in Augusta GA, always give 110% customer service. I have been a customer for over 5 years and never have been unhappy. From my service guy Kris Norman to the service manager and sales manager. Superb customer service.

Posted by peekaboo44


I own a 2016 Lexus ES350 and am very unhappy with Lexus policy regarding remote start features. I am forced to pay a yearly fee to Toyota to be able to remote start my car after the first complimentary year of service. Why? Most manufacturers provide RS as standard. Lexus should provide a RS system that is free with the smart key and paid if one wishes to use a smartphone system. I plan to purchase a new car and will consider other makes due to this policy.

Posted by Lance


Had a problem with my GX - Staff was very helpful and fixed my car right away - highly recommend

Posted by Anonymous


I have a 2010 Lexus 350RX which has only 40,000 miles. In Dec. 2016 the amplifier stopped working so I had it checked at our Lexus dealer and they said it would cost approx. $850 to replace. As the car has so few miles (and the warranty had just expired a few months earlier) I called customer service at the HQs in Torrance, CA. and hoped to get some consideration in the cost to replace the amplifier.
I spoke to a customer service rep. named Chelsea who said she would discuss our problem and get back to me in a couple of days. She did call back in two days and said because of the low miles, and our 34 year history as Lexus owners, the company would cover the whole cost of replacing the amp!!!! $850.00!!
What a great goodwill gesture which shows what a "class act" Lexus is!!!

Posted by Anonymous


LEXUS NOTTINGHAM

I would like to formally put in writing the excellent service your Lexus Nottingham branch provided me and my partner whilst deciding on the right Lexus model to buy. From the very beginning - looking online and eventually following up with telephone calls to more than one Lexus branch we were geared towards your Nottingham branch.

We live in London and made arrangements to go to your Nottingham branch to see the car we now purchase. The helpfulness and very professional service we received from a young man - Matthew Cole - could not have been any better. There was no rush, complete customer care and 100% helpfulness that swayed us even more to purchase the car we now have. When you spend a lot of money you expect that kind of service but I would like noted that Matthew did over and above his customer care and we hope that he will be recognised for his very professional approach.

We would be grateful if this very complimentary message could be passed on to both the senior personnel of Lexus and indeed management at Lexus Nottingham and Matthew Cole. It is all too easy to receive complaints - its always nice to receive compliments where due.

Kind regards


Cathy James/Nicholas Etienne

Posted by Anonymous


I own an '08 RX400 and am in search of a new car. I like my Lexus very much, but will consider another one when your design team regains its senses. The current models rank right up there with edsels. Hideous. New does not automatically mean better.

Posted by Summers


I have just taken delivery of my new is250 f sport car 2015. The experience at lexus chatswood and staff was exceptional. From the moment i made early enquiries about a new lexus, until today when it was delivered, i cant say enough about the customer service. Jimmy chen deserves an extra mention, he was very knowledgable about his product, he had a very friendly demeanour and did not pressure me to buy. I was happy with my changeover price and all aspects of the new car experience. The girls at the front desk were marvellous and very respectful, i immediately felt at ease. Today the changeover went smoothly and Ben was very helpful in unpackiing all the techno features of my new car. Would highly recommend chatswood lexus to any customers wanting to buy a new car. Thank you again. Love this car.

Posted by kenk


I own a 2010 Rx450h. I am approaching my 100,000 mile. This automobile is the finest car I have driven. The car has been serviced regularly throughout the 100,000 miles at a total cost of $7500. Amazing! And every mile I continue to drive this car I am amazed that it runs as well if not better than the new Rx400hs I have driven. Every mile i drive continues to be a joy... a beautiful car with a beautiful ride... it continues to be a wonderful driving experience.

Posted by Anonymous


i skidded xmas eve on black ice and hit a guardrail at 25 MPH with my 2003 Lexus 300 ES sedan.. That Lexus really was solid and the inner fender sheet metal upports saved the engine compartment from being damaged as well as saving my body from injury as well..Its a very safe car and built like a Mercedes for half the price!

Posted by Cardfan


I have been driving my LS 430 for six years and have had it serviced at Lexus of Louisville. Their service is the best I have ever received since starting driving sixty-five years ago. Service Advisor Joe Brooks walks on water.

Posted by Brian (I think)


I have purchased three RX's from IRA Lexus in Danvers and have been extreamly happy with the sale and services. The people on this site ahve also been very helpful and have answered far too many of my questions without hanging up on me, thank you, Brian....

Posted by witchery83


I worked for a Lexus dealership before in Long Island, NY and customer service is certainly a priority. Now, I drive a Lexus and I have usually found Lexus Service to be more than accomodating. Lexus of Queens was my only subpar experience with Lexus. Rallye Lexus and Lexus of Englewood were both excellent. Both dealerships picked my car up from work, leaving a loaner for me to use. When my car was done, they dropped it off and picked up the loaner. No hassle. They never tried to push questionable repairs... which I have seen Hyundai and Jeep service do to my friends.

Posted by Wyoming Dan


Bought a certified 2009 used Lexis IS 250. I loved the paint, seats and the all wheel drive. Since it was a certified Lexus, Brent told me if I had any problems let him know. Apparently the car had covered up paint problems when I purchased it. Brent and I both saw no problems with paint when I purchased it. I am sure that Stevinson Lexus was unaware of the paint problems. I think whoever had originally leased the vehicle patched it before turning it back in. About a month later when the paint problems showed up I called Brent and he said bring it down and they would take care of it. They took care of it no hassles, no questions and loaned me a car for a week which was a big deal since I lived in Casper, Wyoming, 300 miles away. Brent never pressured me to buy to the 2009 Lexus or any other vehicle, no bull, no BS, just honesty. I looked for a used Cadillac CTS at other dealers on my way down and was tired of their BS. Dealing with Brent Turner at Stevinson Lexus was a breath of fresh air. I cannot afford to purchase a new Lexus, but with the certified Lexus warranty being as good as many new car warranties it is a great car for the price. My wife and I have both agree that our next vehicle purchase will be a certified Lexus from Brent Turner at Stevinson Lexus of Lakewood Colorado.

Posted by Chuck


We purchased a New 2008 Lexus RX 350. Actually it seems to run quite well, we have some 57,000 miles, and follow the scheduled maintenance. We are a retired couple and I mention this for a reason so people know e dont beat our car. Our headlight went, found out it is the Ballast and they want to charge us some $2000 to replace the unit. Now some may say that's what you get for purchasing an expensive car, while we say as owners, since we purchased an expensive car why do headlights go out and cost a "Ridiculous" $2000 to replace. I had a Porsche in my younger days and had a Transmission problem ( No ---not from speeding) and Porsche replaced the trans at N/C, yes not one penny to me. Now that's customer service,,, do I have a Porsche today--Yes, will I have a Lexus in the future NO. The Bluetooth is just terrible in the car and we try NOT to use it due to poor audio to the people we call, and the Navigation system is way to expensive, and cumbersome to use and can easily be replaced by installing a cigarette lights powered unit. Now this is a true reflection of what a Lexus really is.

Posted by billpat


We bought a new Lexus RX350 this last week from Lexus of Portland. A wonderful experience and Dave and Shaun were incredible.

Posted by billtech66


I'm a automotive Tech that's been working on and driving cars and trucks for over 45 years.

I recently bought a used GS400 Lexus, and I must say that it is best car I've ever driven. And I've driven an Aston Martin DB7, all the Porsches, all the Honda's, all the Toyota's, all the Oldsmobiles, Infinity's, Acura's, Fords, Chevy's, Pontiac's, Chrysler
and more.

It has the best of all worlds:
1. it handles like a sports car.
2. it has more power that a lot of 'Fast' sporty cars.
3. it is relaxing and just plain fun to drive.
4. the luxury features are just perfect!

Posted by Anonymous


I have had thirteen Lexus cars and although they have not been perfect, I must say that service at Portland (oregon) Lexus is. they go out of their way to exceed expectation's of the customer and they succeed in doing so. I have referred many friends to the Robert

There are currently 0 Employee Comments for Lexus.

Be the first to submit a comment from an Employee

Awards

We are proud to recognize the companies providing the best customer service each year within their industry.

Company Replies

Authorized representatives of Lexus can sign up to reply to any of the comments found on this page.

Sign Up | Sign In

Contact Information
Customer Service
800-255-3987

including steps to reach representatives, hours of operation, customer support links and more from .
Corporate Office

Locate the Lexus corporate office headquarters phone number, address and more at CorporateOfficeOwl.com.

Get Help Online

Get immediate support for your Lexus questions from HelpOwl.com.

Reviews & Ratings

View thousands of Lexus user reviews and customer ratings available at ReviewOwl.com.

Lexus Manuals
Company News
Ingrassia: New Lexus exotic is fuel efficient, too
Toyota/Lexus makes no excuse for its goal of dominating the automotive market with both practical and outrageous exotic sports cars. Its newest LC 500h hybrid is a terrific example of the latter, with hybrid fuel economy that costs thousands less than ...
Hawksworth takes last gasp GTD pole for Lexus at The Glen
A hotly contested 15 minutes of GTD qualifying saw the existing class qualifying lap record shredded as Jack Hawksworth got the jump on the field in the final two minutes just as the session seemed to be winding down. The Briton took the No. 15 3GT ...
Amazon Is Giving You a Chance to Take Home a 2019 Lexus ES
Amazon has been working to grab a piece of the automotive pie. Not only can you order a new vehicle from the e-commerce giant, some will even ship with Alexa-enabled infotainment systems. The 2019 Lexus ES is the latest addition to its evergrowing list ...